Michael Vadacchino

To start, can you explain to me how boysdancetoo came to be? How did you come up with the brand? Was there a pivotal moment when you decided that you wanted to create this?

“In 2006, I worked at a retail shop in Manhattan called Bloch, and I experienced male dancers and their parents come into the store looking for the very basic of basic items, and we did not have them. After at least one year, I started hounding the Block company, and started telling them, ‘You got to get merchandise in here for these boys. They're leaving in actual tears, because this was now their fourth shop that they've went to just to get tights and a shirt, and they couldn't get it’...They finally agreed, but we had to pull in other brands that were making the men's dance wear and bring them into the store. When that happened, the sales of the men's merchandise became almost 20% of all of the sales of the store. For us to be able to create that relief for the boys that were coming in, even if we didn't have everything, and being able to watch that with my eyes was just amazing. And I made sure [the male dance wear] was displayed…so that it wasn’t something in the back of the store, in a closet somewhere, where we had to go find it and bring it out.”

“[Eventually], I left that company and decided that I wanted to create my own business…[Sarah Singer] has been my partner for over 15 years…and we both agreed that this is not fair—boys dance too…and that’s how we decided to call it boys dance too. In 2009, we conceptualized the business, and in 2010, we filed for the business and started it in a closet in my apartment in Jersey City…The inspiration was desperation. These boys are desperate, and it's not fair, so let's do what we can do.”

How did your business go from a closet in your apartment to what it is now?

“We were relentless. We made no money for a very long time…[But], once we started to make money, we didn't take it. We decided to put it back into the business. We did proper photoshoots…and used it to improve our offerings.”

“It was meant to become big, because there's a lot of [young boys] out there and you were not paid attention to. You were an afterthought, and you still are in a lot of the brands out there, if not all of them.”

“What we did was show our heart on our website, our social media, and in-person…and we made sure to show up for you and speak up for you in as many ways as possible, and that to a young dancer, really means a lot, right?”

“Our #boysdancetoo started in 2010, and now it’s all over the world. That's the power of all of [the young boys] out there.”

Your mission statement states that boysdancetoo was created “to support dancers through dance wear and beyond, and encourage them to be and love exactly who they are.” You also wrote in a personal statement that you hoped “to change the way the world sees men in dance.” How have you and your organization lived up to these aspirations?

“I need to give you a little warning, I'm an emotional guy. I haven't had anyone read that to me ever. Ooh. I don't know if I've lived up to my own personal statement, to be honest. That statement was made with the clear understanding, at the age of 30, that this is a lifelong project. It was more of a visionary statement about how I want to envision the world. And to be honest, I'm not there. I think we've nudged the needle. But, we can always do more.”

“My dream was to have male dance wear products in all the major sports clothing stores in the country. I wanted 50 years to go by, and have my life work be complete, and have no one even blink an eye or make a face when they see a dance belt or a leotard at their local sports store, and have them instead be like, ‘Oh, yeah, duh.’ That's what I wanted…What I think boysdancetoo has given you, and all the boys out there, is more authority over who you are, and maybe allowed you to be less shy and more empowered and audacious about telling people, ‘I'm a ballet dancer.’ We’re making the world more aware of what you do, and I think that's progress.”

You mentioned that you personally don't feel like you have lived up to your aspiration yet. So, what are your future aspirations for boysdancetoo? What do you plan on doing to fulfill your dream?

“The pandemic has shifted many, many things. The clearest honest answer at this moment…is that I would like to find the newer Michael and Sarah. I would like to see another generation come in and move forward with what we started. Not that we're ending, but I think the power lies in the next generation.”

What do you think those people that you want to pass the baton onto could or should do?

“My immediate answer is, I want them to do what they want, not me. That's what I'm looking for: fresh, passionate folks with the same deep connection I have with improving the lives of all of [the young boys out there] and educating people about dance and the value that it holds. And I have a million ideas, but I want someone else's. I want better ideas, and I don't know what they are. They're not mine.”

Can you tell me a little bit about the Male Dance Conference and Male Dancer Academy that you established? How long has it been going on? What is the scale of the program?

“The male dancer conference came first. We were in touch with a lot of dancers and the parents and teachers, and I became really annoyed that there were not enough things for [male dancers] to do and connect with each other…So, I was like, well, I'm going to make something myself. So, once again the inspiration came from annoyance and desperation…Once we did the first one, we realized how important it was, and we were like, ‘Well, we have to do this yearly.’ So, the second one happened and it doubled in size, and then the third one happened, and an extra 25% more boys attended.”

“The problem was that we couldn't fit everyone. There's very few studios that would support us. I'm going to say that again, there were very few studios that would support us. There was just a lack of interest in hosting something like our conference, even if it was only for a few days. We had to spend all of the money just to get space because no one would give us a break or a chance. We didn't have the financing, we were doing everything on our own."

“When the pandemic hit, we had to close down boysdancetoo temporarily. But, I didn't think it was going to be temporary. I thought it was going to be forever. When we shut that down, I just thought of all of [the young boys] out there, not being in your studio, not being in school. [They’re] all alone. [They’re] scared. So, we were like, ‘We have to do something. I don't know how long this pandemic is going to last.’ So, I thought: ‘What if I trained [these boys] to at least stay really fit? So, I offered a thing on Zoom…and I did four or five of them for two different age groups, and they were packed—there were 70 or more boys…And then we were like, ‘Why don't we just ask our teachers from the Male Dancer Conference if they want to do some classes? And then we just added another one and then another one and added another one, and then it became an actual program…We got these boys so good over Zoom that by the time they got back to in person training, their teachers were like, ‘I don't understand. Why are you so much better? What happened to you?’ And they would say, ‘We're going here.’ And then we got them even better and better and better and the parents kept asking us for more. And then I asked them, ‘Do you want to take them to YAGP?’ So we started training boys and teaching them choreography on Zoom to go compete at YAGP under the name of the Male Dancer Academy"

Have you seen since you started boysdancetoo, that those other companies have expanded their products for boys? Or has it stayed the same?

“Absolutely. Definitely after year two of us. We opened in 2010, and definitely by 2013 or 2014 they started to pick up their own slack. I noticed that very quickly, which was a good thing. This is a good thing. I would rather that be the case. That's the whole point of the boysdancetoo brand. Stop ignoring the boys…I'll be honest with you, the brands that I'm most impressed with are Wear Moi and Body Wrappers, they were the ones that really took it seriously and made an expansion in their product line.”

What do you think the greatest impact of your programs have been? Do you have any success stories in mind?

“I cannot count the stories. I'd be here forever. We have made an enormous impact on boys.”

“‘You have saved my kid's life' is a phrase I heard more than I would have liked to. We have increased the amount of safety for a lot of male dancers and allowed them to feel safe in their bodies and in their environments, and that is a really big deal. Self-harm is more popular than I understood with boys, whether they're dancers or not, and especially among boys that are bullied. So, making them all feel safer and more confident and putting them in environments that make sure you remember how much you love to dance, especially when you're at the edge of quitting because the bullying is just too much.”

“Many parents would ask me for my opinions about how to best interact with their kids in order to support them. I think the biggest standout to me was the parents who really wanted to find the right way to support and connect with their boys, but weren't quite sure how to do it, especially the dads. They would come in and be like, ‘I really don't understand this, but I like my kid, and my kid likes this. What should I do?’ So, I think the conference in particular brought parents together and allowed them to discover the answers to their questions…It's very isolating for parents of male dancers for the same reason that it's isolating for the male dancers. So, bringing more of you together is quite transformative.”

What was the most important piece of advice that you gave to these parents?

“The most important piece of advice was to listen to their child, the dancer, because they know their body and they know their level of interest. I also told them to not be afraid if the boys want to explore something else, as long as it's because they want to try something else, not because they're bowing down to bullies. That was a consistent piece of advice: trust your son and let them be who they want to be.”

What is the biggest misconception that you found about men in dance? What triggers the bullying and the lack of representation?

“Are you ready? You're not going to know what's coming here…All the judgmental bullies out there will automatically go: ‘Ah, he's gay.’ This guy is totally gay. Gay, gay, gay, gay, gay. ‘How dare you be gay.' So, that's the biggest misconception. But, what if it wasn't a misconception? What if they got it right? Is there a problem with that? Yes…Where this also leads to the biggest problem: that society still thinks being gay is unacceptable…But, why are boys in ballet even considered gay in the first place? It's because doing ballet means doing something girls typically do. But, why can’t a boy want to do something that girls like to do? You tell me.”

What would you say to those bullies who believe those misconceptions?

“I don't have anything to say to them. I have dealt with bullies my whole life. I still deal with them now. What I’ve realized is that they need more love in their lives. If I had to tell them something, I would tell the bully that ‘I love them and it's okay to be scared, and I'm sorry for whatever happened to them where you have to nourish themself by being cruel to somebody else.’ These are not practical things for a child to say to a bully. That's just what I want to tell them—what more people need to tell them…They're doing it for a reason. We don't come out of the womb, bullying.”

“We brought bullying up all the time, especially at the conference. I mean, this is a big topic. I've been a victim of bullying for my whole life. And my answer is, I don't have one. And it really hurts. I really wish I had something for [these young boys] to say to them. It just sucks. The closest things that I could come up with…I put on a shirt. [The first one was]: I'm Still Dancing. You can't bully me out of dancing. Sorry. Is that what you want? Maybe [these boys] can ask their bullies a question: ‘Would you like me to hear everything that you're saying and then just change everything?’...[The second one was]: Keep Dancing. This was a message from us to [all the boys out there], to [their] parents, and anyone else that supports [them]. I want you all to keep dancing.”

I think that's very true for so many people. A dancer in Danseur said that "[They didn't] want to stop dancing. [They] just want the bullying to stop."

“The unfortunate news was, it won't stop. The fight has nothing to do with you dancing. It's a thousand year cultural phenomenon that we have to behave in certain ways, depending upon what [gender we are born as]. That's something you cannot fight. You have to literally solve a societal problem about gender and misogyny and homophobia and religion. It's so huge that it's never going to stop. This is why [the Male Dancer Academy] focused on...getting these boys strong as hell, physically, mentally, and spiritually. I thought to myself: ‘How do I make them so strong that if the bullying keeps coming, it doesn't matter? That it's not going to make [them] stop?”

What specifically would you like to see improve about the dance industry, in regards to boys and men in the US?

“I want the people with the money in this industry to [set up] and invest in mens products, training, and other services like anti-bullying campaigns without the expectation that they're going to make a ton of money back on it. This is a multi-billion dollar industry. And it is mostly made up of those who identify as women. And there's this sense of, well, boys probably only make up 10% of the population of all the dancers, so they're going to get 10% of our energy. But it shouldn’t be that way.”

Does that funding pose an issue for your organization?

“Definitely, yeah…funding is really laborious…and it’s even harder when you receive absolute dismissal or disinterest from folks who can really make a difference…but [we eventually stopped] trying to fundraise because it would take away what we were doing for the boys.”

What was your opinion on the aftermath of Lara Spencer’s comments regarding Prince George?

“My experience with [the figures that did the interview with Lara Spencer] was that they took an opportunity to better themselves over benefiting all [the boys] out there. Actually, that's not my take. It's absolutely what happened. I think a piece of their heart was in it…but it could have and should have been a bigger thing…They had all these amazing resources to make an actual difference, for a really large amount of people, for a long amount of time, but they missed their opportunity…They did their interview and simply accepted her apology. But [they] don't speak for [all the boys out there]. What if [they are] still pissed? You don't get to just tell Lara Spencer, it's fine now. It's solved. Thank you for the interview. I would not have been like, ‘We understand why you're sorry, it's okay.' No, it isn’t.”

learn more about Michael Vadacchino & boysdancetoo here

interview by William McClure Stout